Why do I get the feeling we're witnessing the last days of the Caldari militia? Be careful for what you wish for Bolster. Get your corp mates to go find another isk-generating activity because it's all downhill for you guys from here on out.


I would just like to know if we're not going to be allowed to dock in Caldari hi-sec systems ? (lol at the complete lack of logic w.r.t station docking)

I guess the space riches & dreams of all the Mission farmers leaving if they get locked out of stations will be just that.. Dreams..

I just ran a major on the test server & it paid out 20k LP. While the time it takes to run is much longer than a single FW mission, they are still easy enough to do that plexing will simply become the new farm method as the NPC's are still going to allow for frigs to pretty much speed tank any of the plexes. So instead of having bomber alts all over low sec we will see more T1 noob alts plexing and driving LP prices down even more.


I had a second thought on the plex war front and even with the Gallentte blobs, I think Caldari can actually control the fight at this point due to how fast systems can be flipped under the current plex mechanics. Plexing for station systems will just go back to advantage of who has most guys on few hours B4 & right after DT.

Quick example of how bad this system is and why the no docking in stations is bad. Right now once a system is flipped it can't be attacked again until the next DT. This means even though Caldari are out numbered in the major prime times, a small dedicated group can grief the hell out of any Gals that choose to live in FW low sec, after this update.

If Gals continue to base in Nenn for example, after this patch it only requires a small but dedicated group of Caldari to force them out of the system by using this new no docking mechanic to it's potential for grief play. Caldari only have to hit key systems like Nenn, Rak, Vlill, Nis & Hey to drive Gals out of low sec.

How can we do this? It's very simple Caldari have historically always had more activity just b4 & after DT. Caldari plexers only have to time making systems Vulnerable to right at down time. This means right after down time they can attack the bunker & once captured, Gals will not be able to get access to their ships til the next DT & even then not until they can spend 8 hours plexing & killing the bunker.

This means even if Gals try to take back the system the next day, they can't dock until it's re-captured and Then Caldari only has to wait til next DT to grief the Gals low sec home once again.

At first I thought Caldari might have issues under the new system, but now I think it will actually put the sov war back in our favor. GL gals, I think you going to need it if the current system goes live.

Side note this mechanic seems to be lost on some of the Cal plexers as I tried explaining it, It got whined at by a couple that couldn't see past their 10 min orbit timers and thought I was jabbering up their plex channel. However perhaps they will read this post and understand. So Gals maybe you can live in Nenn a short time til they figure it out. Otherwise I'm looking for cheap BC hulls if you don't feel like moving them.

If things really go really bad for us (fw corps), we could all just leave fw and do mutual wardecs against each other until things get better

At the moment I don't have that much time to play eve so I'd have to leave defending of my assets to others. Or fix my sec status and move stuff to highsec. Don't like it... Tho I don't think it's as bad as some ppl here have been theorizing. FW have strong corps, we'll adapt.

They made it take much longer to flip systems.

Read my post again, then maybe again....

Notice the "I'll believe it when I see it" yet? - I don't believe the squids have the... will / ability / leadership / fcs / balls [delete as appropriate] to come and directly challenge the Gallente.

Sure they currently sneak about in cloaky ecm burst stabbed nanofagships capping plexes while most Gallente are out looking for proper fights, but if and when they actually challenge Gallente we'll steamroller them in fights (and plexes if needs be) unless they get some influx of new blood in the form of.... fcs / leadership / will / ability / balls.
I for one really hope this happens with these changes as it would spice things up a bit and it well might since FW will maybe appeal to more different people,

Null sec has nothing to do with this, but if you'd ever visited Null you'd know what a blob really is.... FW hasn't had a proper 'blob' since the early days and people crying about blobs really need to get some perspective.

I think the docking denial is a good idea since it adds some consequences for not defending a place. I am pretty sure I will regret this once my own station is taken and I am affected, but it definatelly will motivate me and others to avoid or resolve this issue once happened.

You forgot "numbers" in the list of things caldari lacks.

WHAT? O.O I better get in contact with my old contacts! When did they let alliances back into FW? and hey I waited a long time for some changes don't blame me for not being up to date anymore.

I think the docking restrictions will seriously hinder new players from joining and staying in FW. Most of the people in favor of the docking restrictions like Julius or Victer seems to be veterans (at least I think they are?) but they don't understand how challenging it will be for the newbies to stay in FW. It is stupid for CCP to ask for young players who have no alt to go create another alt on the same account and postpone training time with our main. Or even dumber to ask us to get 2nd account just for this.

People don't understand that the younger players are likely to suffer the most because of the docking restrictions. But what does their opinions matter since it's only the vets whose opinions matter as Hans pointed out

Let's be crystal clear about what we're talking about here and cut through some of the hysteria. "Sov reset" is actually a misleading and inaccurate term for what is being discussed.

Huola has always been the sovereign space of the Amarr Empire. Auga has always been the sovereign space of the Minmatar Republic. That has never once been adjusted, modified, or changed, and continuity of this fact into the May 22 expansion would not truly be a "Sov reset". The argument that CCP should reset 0.0 sovereignty is a straw-man, because we're not actually talking about CCP moving sovereignty lines, though that is how everyone is interpreting this.

What CCP proposed at Fan Fest was removing the meaningless occupancy mechanic, and giving capsuleers the ability to fight over actual Sovereignty. Many pilots made an assumption at this point, and planned efforts to reinforce their occupation in enemy sovereign space, despite the fact that CCP was saying they would be removing occupancy entirely. These pilots assumed that CCP would just arbitrarily change occupancy into Sovereignty, which would indeed be a shuffling of who has sovereignty, a forced adjustment akin to fiddling with null sec Sov as you pointed out. Saying that current Sovereignty designations will remain the same following the May 22 is not truly a "Sov reset" and therefore not some radical action akin to what you are suggesting.

The bottom line is that neither CCP nor the CSM can advocate rules or changes that are based upon the actions capsuleers take in anticipation of a package of changes that was never set in stone, and still isn't set in stone. It's a tough pill to swallow for some, but every single patch there is a similar flurry of economic activity, and plenty of pilots have lost billions before speculating on future changes that may or may not come to pass. CCP cannot change that policy now and make Sovereignty adjustments simply because pilots moved into enemy sov space under the assumption it would magically become their own.

We could debate this all day, or we can simply and see what the final package and procedure is going to be when the dev blog comes out this week. Either way, players will have almost two weeks to gird themselves for the coming war and prepare their battle plans.

The fact that there are such simple workarounds is exactly why they should not do full station lockouts. It's purely illusory and easily avoided using the meta game. That makes it a silly, unnecessary, change.

The only reason one would do such a thing is if someone actually wants to ENCOURAGE the use of neutral alts. And the only reason I can think someone would want to do that is something I really don't want to contemplate.

Lock out station services and agents. That can't be exploited around (as easily).

Regardless, I am keeping an open mind and will wait for the devblog.

I'm confused as to why people think it'll make such a big difference. Years ago the public amarr fleets staged out of Tuomuta (in highsec). Nothing here will stop anyone from basing out of highsec and that's a worst case scenario.

This may actually be useful since it'll penalize the flashy pirates that join fw for additional wartargets that don't require gcc. For those that aren't <-5, the 'cataclysmic consequences' of this change are vastly overblown.

And that's supposed to be the fault of the game designers?

So as I understand it then, the people whining have made a choice to go -5 by killing non-wts and now don't want to pay any penalties for it? Fascinating.

Just about done moving all my stuff out of FW low sec. Looking for a small-scale non-null sec PVP loc. Anyone have good suggestions?
Seriously though, consider this: my character is both carebear and PVP. Station lockout caters to my carebear side GÇô I really donGÇÖt need any more of that; while limiting my PVP side, especially when belonging to an underdog faction. So the idea of service / agent lockout (NOT station lockout) seems to be a win GÇô win for both of my sides: it caters to the carebear (there is incentive on keeping those types of agents and services), while not affecting my PVP side (even as a PVP pilot, I really donGÇÖt give a rip if I donGÇÖt know where Bahamut is hiding).

IGÇÖve said it before, and I say it again: station lockout will result in the following:
1. Most, if not all veteran FW PVP pilots will leave.
2. Many new pilots will be attracted initially, leading to
3. Blob warfare (seems like this is familiar GÇô o yeah, this is where my null sec cup of tea shattered)
4. After everyone gets tired of this new type of 0.0 lite, they will leave
5. There will be no more targets to shoot GÇô the faction with the biggest blob will always have the upper hand, controlling most, if not all systems.

This will effectively kill FW. If that is CCPGÇÖs objective, then move forward; otherwise, they need to seriously reconsider the possible repercussions.
Oh wait GÇô but there is a dev blog hope on the horizon? Station lockout is already on Sisi; so I am not holding my breath.

Could we please tek personal standing with an agent in acount.

I'm a single toon player, to young to have several characters trained to a level that would make a useful alt, I do run anomalies, missions and PI operations in several lowsec area's to pay for the PvP and to do something different every now and then.

I've build up standing with several agents in those stations. it would be nice to have those let you in to there stations.

Well actually mission runners in FW usually only do them because they is no better way to make isk in low sec. I knowim keen to actually get something for Plexing and PVP. It will make a massive difference to the way I make iskies. It will be much more fun.

You just can't give LP to an afk condor. You just can't.

Wow this is amazing...CCP finally, finallyyyy, FINALLY dedicates a patch to FW and there is NOTHING BUT BITCHING.

Who cares about station lock outs?! It makes perfect sense and will create real tangible battle lines that currently FW needs. So what if you can't camp Auga 3rd 24/7 completely ruining the warzone for everybody else? Who cares if you can't stage 20 capitals in your enemies home station so you can get those totally awesome hour long capital fights and capital mails? Shut up with the whining. Station hugging and station camping is not fun.

By locking out stations all that will happen is 1) more fights on gates, 2) more fights in plexes and 3) a advantage for the faction being camped in a station because they do not have to worry about the enemy docking in their station and undocking one of the capitals they have stored there once the fight starts.

Get over yourselves. This patch, if implimented correctly, will give FW a NEEDED boost in fun. System upgrades and real faction sov? More LP for kills and LP for plexes? No more no lifer corps camping enemy markets (Auga 3rd ahem)? Count me in.

THANK YOU CCP and do not listen to these FW drama queens who have been dragging the feature down for so long.

All these rabid posting by Hidden Snake and Dirk makes me laugh. It's rather hilarious that they were not really so worried before, but for the first time ever SLAPD sat down and decided to plex a system to ensure IBS's removal. Within a day we have flipped Rakapas, and we have now found many brave allies fighting to keep IBS from living in Rakapas. Suddenly IBS appears and cries about it over and over. Now there was no "we were sleeping" there were many fights in system as squids tried to thwart our glorious jihad.

SImply put, you're outgunned Snake, I'd suggest you join REVOLUTION or Sacred Fire Alliance. Then you can run to the corners or the map or simply do what you do best with them. Blob and run. Not that they even have anything to show for it, and soon you won't either.

I predict fail. There will have to be a substantial infusion of players into the losing side for them to "quickly make headway".

First, it'll be very difficult to take systems that are more than one jump from a basing system due to plexing mechanics (reshipping issues due to station lockout, takes at least 40 hours to flip undefended system).

Second, they won't have the isk income to compete. While a counterattack mIght lead to more fights for a while, the side that is down will soon lose to attrition. If this gets to a 4: 1/4 ratio, then Intaki L4 agent = 1.5*16* High Sec Caldari Agent in LP and isk payout. Coordinate all you want, winning side has the means to leroy 24 times as many ships (in value) into the battle as losing side does. (The side leroying 24 times as many ships in value is going to win more than lose, btw).

My guess is that the Gallente/Caldari front settles on a 2: 1/2 ratio in which case the difference in payouts will be a factor of five or more. Good luck Bolster!

Go ahead and respond or not. I could be wrong, let new system play out, yada yada yada.....

Reikoku aren't going trough their best times, same as Dark Rising which joined Gallente. Unless someone like Solar, -A-, PL, NCdot or others of that caliber join, FW can handle it easly. Hell, we scored the ocasional gank or win in subcaps even against some of those entities when we brought our A game.

More PVP (even against larger entitiies) won't be what kills FW, forced PVE will accomplish that.

Hey, how angry are you that we plexed Rak and flipped it and now you can't take it back? Also I've noticed that you didn't have much to say about all this until we did so and now you are raging like a child. Have fun leaving FW and watching your corp dissolve.

I can see how older, established corps and players might wish to join a currently "losing" side, when there is the possibility of more action, and the lure of earning large amounts of lp, then cashing it in when the lp store is more favourable. Using their isk and ship reserves, and planning for the long term and so on.

I wonder though about newer corps and players. The tutorial still gives out the "letter of recommendation" which allows new accounts of <30 days age to join, even if they don't have the relevant standings yet.

However, with station access not guaranteed, and poorer rates of return on lp, newer entities may not have a satisfactory income from FW if they join a "losing" side, and have to depend more heavily on other sources of income.

Might create a bad initial impression, and thus be a problem for recruitment later on. And less people coming in, will tend to stagnate things for the opposing sides too.

Will be interesting to see how it turns out, after a few months.

The thing is you were ok with these changes and said nothing (nor did most of IBS) until it became clear they would affect you greatly. It's ok, we've enjoyed seeing you guys attempt to fight for Rakapas and we hope you do till eviction day, but I think I've never seen so much rambling from IBS on the forums as I did the day after we took Rakapas. Before then I think you were content to have these changes roll in.

Well hopefully it'll be quick and Ytter will be forced to adjust sov lockout sooner rather than later.

lot of quotes ....

And these quotes come from guys on (what's generally considered) the winning side atm. Can;t even imagine how the losing sides (caldari/amarr) feel about it.

Could have just stopped at that part..


After playing this game a few years now, I've come to the conclusion that design process at CCP revolves around.. "Hey I have to really cool idea....and shiny stuff!!!"

With out a whole lot of actually playing game & understanding what the players really want vs what a newest hot topic complaint on the forum is at the moment.

Faction Warfare whine threads from the future:

BAN 'Ninja whoring'

FW alts in bombers are uncloaking near fights and TPing everyone to get a slice of the LP. They're stealing my LP! CCP, LP should be awarded based on damage done which ... well, about logi ... FC should decide? ... I think the whores in Crucifiers are even worse, they're ruining fights ...

EXPLOITERS awarded LP in own deaths!!

We just took out this entire gang, OK, but when we looked at the killmails we saw that everyone in this gang had applied some EWAR to each other before we engaged. So they got on each others' KM, and we got less LP for it! .... intrafleet actions ... intramilitia actions? ...

GTFO out my plex

So this guy in my militia came into the plex I was taking in a dual-prop dramiel and ran around on grid, doing nothing to help, and he got LP for it. OK, a **** thing to do, but then he did it again and again. Don't say he was trying to kite the rats, 'cause if I've got a while left on the timer, he just warps back out. ... the dramiels are tough, but people use other ships, so I brought my other-militia alt into plexes with me and we just take turns ... what?! What's wrong with that? ...

Why is it easier to contest a whole region than a single system?

So I took my slicer out (an embarrassing PvE one that you'll never see on a KB, since even minor rats can grind you down and I can't dock>repair>undock>fight when I see someone coming anyway, so why bother...) and took a minor in every single system that had one in the Metropolis and Heimatar regions. I had to run from maybe 1-2 pirates -- I didn't see a single wt out here.

And then I tried to grind down one system (phew, 1 plex down, only 149 to go!), so I took the minors, and then I needed to reship, so I have to fly all the way back ... really? You can take even a major with two T1 frigs? ****, why am I even bothering without an alt?

NERF FW CAREBEARS: the front lines should be the front lines

^^^ you see that guy who contested two entire regions by himself? That's bullshit! I was docked in Arzad the entire time he was doing that, waiting to hear that someone was trying to take a plex here ... no LP awarded for non-frontline systems ... ones next to enemy systems, duh ... what if there were no LP unless it were _really_ contested, like if the enemy tried to decontest the system ... if there were a fight in the plex ... just ban people with enemy alts! That's an exploit! ...

**** this, losing's more profitable than winning

So I joined the NPC militia corp after Inferno, and got right to getting paid to take systems -- but we'd already taken every system but, like, these horrible enemy 'home' systems. So every time I tried to take a plex by myself I just died immediately. It seemed like my system-taking options were limited to 1) join the blob, or 2) **** off. But I wanted to give FW a chance, so I started trying to defend systems. I mean, every single one of our systems is contested, and I've run into solo and small groups of wts doing that, so fighting them should be fun, right? Actually, it was! When I could get a fight, I mean; they really seemed more adverse to combat than I thought people would be in Faction Warfare - I still can't figure out why I didn't get some of those fights.

I had fun doing this for a while, but when I started to get short on isk, it suddenly hit me: the people I was fighting were making isk even as I fought them! ...

Some questions for ex-militia who've moved to NPC null.

Heh. We all just want a system that allows us to shoot each other in the face, beat our chests when we do well and smack each other when we fail ..
CCP's solution is a system in which the optimal play-style is to avoid combat at all costs unless its blob fights.

Go figure.

But fear not, for my brain just sent a memo claiming it has the answer to all out woes:
- Introduce diminishing returns and its reverse when it comes to plexing (already operating with a x1-4 modifier so put it to use)
(Optional)
- Delay principal FW changes until NPC, plexes and missions are 'balanced' and above is ready.

Intermediary result:
- An attacker will only be able to take all systems if anally retentive as the VP required has the warzone control modifier applied. You'd have to really, really hate the enemy to submit yourself to closing 600 plexes in those last systems ...
- An underdog, coming from close to zero can drop systems in 25% the time it would normally take .. the inverse of the warzone control modifier the enemy enjoys.

Final result:
- The two warzones each reach an equilibrium based on total available manpower/time rather than ability to blob at the right times.
- We all get to shoot each other in plexes as Godddess intended.
- Snowballs will melt as excessive momentum is stopped dead in its track.
- LP streams remain open for everyone as no side will ever be able to hold all space so missions and offensive plexes will always be available.

Go Team Brain!

Bingo. No real mystery about that.

And once the inevitable snowball occurs - one of two things will happen.

1.) Either entities will join in, and support the remaining militia members that haven't ragequit, and push for a giant comeback and make obscene profits along the way, cashing out all the LP they earn from PvP and offensive plexing once they push the multiplier into their favor (and this works even better if they can do it faster than the markets can price shift).

LOL at all the rage towards Hans. Just remember CSM dont make decisions, its upto CCP to actually to listen to them...

I say lets see what happens post 22nd... For now stop whining and get on with it... As there will be MANY AWESOME FIGHTS to be had over the next 7 days! Bring on this weekend!!!! It will be a blockbuster!!!!!

Well, the problem isn't necessarily the mechanics, its the people. Currently, Minmatar and Gallente are simply bigger and more numerous. There isn't anything CCP can do to change that. I don't think its fair for CCP to limit participation from the bigger side in favor of the little guy; that isn't the way CCP has historically built EVE Online.

And if they did somehow create some restriction on how many people of each militia could be in a system or in a plex at a single time, that system would get horribly abused and be hopelessly ineffective. Regardless of whatever mechanics CCP decides to throw at us, the problem is that we are simply bigger/stronger than the Amarr and likewise for the Gallente. Nothing CCP does will change that, it is up to the Amarr and Caldari themselves to a) recruit more or b) cooperate/coordinate with the #s they have better or c) do nothing, leave the warzone, and let the Minmatar/Gallente to stagnate/atrophy with no targets until the sides are once more at an equilibrium.

That is the way the warzones have always been, Inferno isn't going to change this very fundamental aspect of the war.

It will draw new FW players, it already does, sadly old FW players are leaving.

my self included, these changes make FW a full time job, untill now I ran a couple of PI stations did some anomalies and then joined up with a fleet to run plexes.

I considered the different disaplines a fun mix, current changes make that all but impossible.

I'll probably be back after I'f trained an alt on this account so I can keep my income.

Sure changes give you LP, though most of that need a s^&t load of tags and Plexes are almost never salvaged, new system will make that even harder.So jack casual still needs a side income, which will be very hard after the patch, unless you want to run FW missions.

Untill later FW Friends and Enemies

Doubtful. Hans is basicly laughing at feeble Amarr/Caldari now in his blog, somehow living in fantasy land that total number of active pvp pilots (not mission w..res) is anywhere near balanced. And he says "Recruit more you "n00blets". Yeah, great recruiting pitch "Enemy has more numbers and makes 4-16 times for isk than us for same effort, but you want to join us and not them because....because...um....can't figure a reason really".

Distrust breeds hatred, hatred fuels war, and war brings fights. CCPGÇÖs expansion is already working as intended. = Hans.

Yes, we distrust and hate our enemy (at least everyone should, otherwise why are you playing eve) but that does not mean we are not rational human beings. This in turn causes us to make sure that said sub-human filth (= enemy, like Hans) cannot gank us and get the abovementioned isk boost since there are other options to go along.

Inferno is going to require 5xs the button spinning to flip a system. Haven't you heard the advertisement "Faction war now with 5xs the button spinning"

Hrett thinks 3xs the button spinning is plenty. I think 1/6 the button spinning is plenty.